Disconnected with Reality

Every expert from economists to the White House to Moody’s say that allowing the government to default on the debt would be nightmarish. Except Republicans and Tea Party Republicans.

By a 53% to 30% margin, most Republicans say that it will not be a major problem if the debt ceiling is not raised by Aug. 2. [...]

Tea Party Republicans are by far the most unconvinced about the potential fallout from going past the Aug. 2 deadline. Fully 65% of Republicans and Republican leaning independents who agree with the Tea Party see no major problems if this occurs, compared with 45% of Republicans and Republican leaners who do not agree with the Tea Party.

Idiots. I’m surprised they haven’t blamed the debt default “hoax” on Al Gore’s body mass index.

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  • GrafZeppelin127

    What do you expect from a group of people who think it’s even possible, let alone desirable or wise, for the federal government to simply, suddenly and arbitrarily “stop spending?”

  • trgahan

    The big “nothing bad will happen” will be when the debt ceiling is raised and the economy is no longer held hostage. Then they will start the “You’re children and children’s children will be paying for this reckless spending.” They didn’t seem to mind the spending when it was tax cuts to the top, program support to right wing “churches” and empire building in the Middle East.

  • dildenusa

    The tea parties are being led down the garden path by the Bachmann personality cult. They should be asking themselves where does the garden path end. Obviously they’re not asking the important questions. In fact they aren’t asking any questions at all. Is this blind obediance? Blind trust? It’s all of these things. In this day and age for supposedly educated, informed people not to be questioning this, is very bad. So are the tea partiers educated and informed? It seems they are educated and informed enough to know something about the debt ceiling and budget deficits. But their emotions allows them to be led down the garden path by false prophets.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1655290390 Steven Skelton

    Raising the debt limit without fixing the deficit problem isn’t going to fix the problem either. It’s like taking a pain pill to deal with an abscessed tooth.

    Short term, the credit raters are probably concerned about the politics of the moment. I would argue, however, that the biggest threat to credit rating is a federal government that borrows one out of every three dollars it spends and faces ever growing obligations from a shrinking tax base.

    • BuffaloBuckeye

      “…. I would argue, however, that the biggest threat to credit rating is a federal government that borrows one out of every three dollars it spends and faces ever growing obligations from a shrinking tax base. ”

      Funny how launching into two areas of combat while reducing taxes (to pay for said combat) has that kind of impact.

    • http://twitter.com/AlanFors Alan Fors

      They are two seperate issues. The deficit only became linked to the debt limit when Congress chose to hold their breath and stomp their feet and be stubborn little brats until they got their way.

      But your statement does point out how remarkably well the Tea Party, the Republicans, and Fox News have linked the issues in the public debate, so that so many people now think they are inseperable issues.

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1655290390 Steven Skelton

        They are inseparable issues. Raise the debt ceiling, don’t raise the debt ceiling…unless you fix the deficit problem bond raters will downgrade our paper either way.

        To argue differently is to say that we can borrow 1.5 trillion dollars every year for eternity and it won’t be a problem.

        • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=663669914 Sean Richardson

          Nobody is saying that, largely because it’s stupid. Obama is the one who’s trying to get them to cut spending, which the Republicans refuse to do because Obama wants it.

          The point is that, right now, to fix the economy, the government needs to spend money. That’s the way every recession in history has ever been fixed.

          • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1655290390 Steven Skelton

            We had a trillion dollar stimulus, a trillion dollar bank bailout and have run 5 trillion in deficit spending since Obama came into office. So please tell me, what is the magic number? How much do we have to spend?

          • MrDHalen

            We have to spend just 1 more dollar and the economy will be fixed.

            See, I can make up numbers as well.

          • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1655290390 Steven Skelton

            Ummm…my numbers weren’t made up.

          • mrbrink

            Well cut my taxes and call it stimuli!

            Shut down America for what?

            Lower taxes?

            A better look at all those big ideas like, HR2? “Repealing the Job-Killing Health Care Law Act?”

            Or pull up a high chair for grown up policies beginning with the threat of purposefully attacking our economy to further consider Eric Cantor’s declaration of HR1: The Government Shutdown Prevention Act “law of the land?” because he seems like someone that respects power and/or conflicts of interest?

            Magical laws to enact magical numbers that hurt real people.

            La-la-la… those rascals, grabbing the wheel off a cliff.

            Trickle down a comin’ any day now, any day now, ham bone.

          • Dan_in_DE

            Imagine if that stimulus spending, which by all accounts had to be spent to avert a second great depression, had been about a trillion more – then it would have actually made an impact on the economy. People like Paul Krugman said all along that it wasn’t nearly enough. It’s simple mathematics. Take an economy as big as ours, and a recession as deep as Bush’s, and you will need nearly a trillion in stimulus just to fill the spending gap caused by loss of revenues at the local and state levels. Surprise, surprise! That’s just what happened.

            So the answer to your question – about 1 trillion more, at the start of the recession, would actually have created jobs and allowed the economy to start recovering on it’s own.

            You satisfied, Skelter? .. perhaps a more appropriate question, or are you just a troll (possibly conservative think tank paid troll) who types in voodoo economics/Reaganite talking points into the internets machine without ever giving any thought to the strength of your arguments?

          • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1655290390 Steven Skelton

            Where do I sign up to be conservative think tank troll? I would love to get paid for this!

          • Dan_in_DE

            it’s more like astroturfing PR firms, but you get my point. If you’re spending this much time spewing right wing corporate propaganda and NOT getting paid for it, you are one heck of a chump!

          • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1655290390 Steven Skelton

            You got a lead for me on the astroturfing PR firms?

          • Dan_in_DE

            try The Bivings Group. They’re nothing if not unscrupulous. They do good work for one of Bob’s favorite, upstanding corporations, Monsanto.

          • http://twitter.com/eaglesfanintn eaglesfanintn

            Wasn’t TARP under the old regime? Or are we rewriting history again. Just like Bush kept us safe…sure, whatever.
            You’re right that spending does need to be cut, but to ignore the fact that two wars (started under your lord and master) and irresponsible tax cuts that the GOP now refuses to let lapse, are huge factors in the deficit.
            Can there be any doubt that (God forbid) McCain was in office now this wouldn’t even be a discussion and the morons in the House would just do it?

          • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1655290390 Steven Skelton

            You don’t know me at all, so please refrain from guessing at my Lord and Master. Furthermore, I am aware of when TARP occurred. Read my comment, it clearly distinguishes between Bush and Obama.

        • mrbrink

          Is he right?

          Oh no.

          Adding, “Disconnected with Reality,” c’mon down!

  • http://twitter.com/bphoon Brian C

    Typical Tea Partier

  • Brutlyhonest

    “Ronald Reagan proved deficits don’t matter.” – Teh Dick

  • http://www.politicalruminations.com/ nicole

    Steven Skelton, you have apparently not got a clue, dude.

    Raising the debt ceiling is NOT about NEW spending. It is ONLY about paying for what Congress ALREADY appropriated.

    The damn deficit should not even be a part of a discussion on raising the debt ceiling.

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1655290390 Steven Skelton

      I do have a clue. I understand the continuing resolutions we are operating under were passed by the previous congress. (Would have been nice if they had passed a budget in the last two years…but that’s a different discussion.)

      The (damn) deficit certainly should be tied to the discussion of raising the debt ceiling as both are clearly endangering the good credit standing of the federal government.

      I do have to say though, your use of capitalization is very persuasive. Perhaps if you had capitalized a few more words you may have swayed me to your side.

      • http://www.politicalruminations.com/ nicole

        I don’t generally try to persuade right wing trolls to my side, so rest at ease.

        The caps are to make it easier for the intransigent, stubborn, and dumb, to read. You have almost always struck me as one of those. .

        As to your supposition that the debt ceiling and the deficit should be tied together, well, you would fit right in with the current crop of idiot right wingnut Tea Party lunatics embedded in the 112th Congress, and currently holding the country hostage.

        • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1655290390 Steven Skelton

          I happen to think the idiot, right wingnut, Tea Party lunatics embedded in the 112th congress are correct. I don’t think it does a bit of good to increase the debt limit without making significant change to how Congress collects revenue and spends money.

          Raising the debt limit without making those changes is like changing the bandage on a severed artery.

          • JMAshby

            “I happen to think the idiot, right wingnut, Tea Party lunatics embedded in the 112th congress are correct.”

            Okay. I think I’ve heard enough.

          • http://www.politicalruminations.com/ nicole

            Interesting that you showed up on this blog last Spring, right around the time all the talk about the debt ceiling began.
            I think I’ll be close enough to correct if I presume that you’re an astroturfing troll from some org that’s related to the wingnut republican/tea party congress.

            Give it up. You’ll never get over on the people who read and comment here, so why bother? Purely stupid.

          • Alex0001

            Well sure except you’re confusing the “severed artery” in this metaphor for being the deficit/debt when it’s the economy that those people you agree with don’t give a rat’s ass about.

      • http://twitter.com/AlanFors Alan Fors

        Why now though? The debt limit and the budget deficit have never been linked in the past. Certainly not when there was a Republican president. Debt limits were raised independent of all other issues. But now, all of the sudden, debt limit and deficit are intimately linked.

        Explain to my why the sudden change?

        • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_VKPR2YXKM3XP24FZCQLSGSHWXU Steven

          Linking the debt ceiling with the deficit is not unprecedented. Think back to the government shutdown of ’95.

          Your sentiment is well founded, but you’re logic is flawed. Yes, the R’s did a really crappy job of managing the deficit when they were in power, but that is largely irrelevant to the greatest threat to our bond rating….our deficit and debt.

          • http://www.politicalruminations.com/ nicole

            sock puppet, anyone?

          • http://twitter.com/AlanFors Alan Fors

            95 shutdown was not a debt limit issue, it was a standoff against passing a budget.

          • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_VKPR2YXKM3XP24FZCQLSGSHWXU Steven

            It has been a long time (and I had to look it up to confirm) but the government shut down in 1995 occured at same time as the government hit it’s debt ceiling. There was much fighting over increasing the debt limits. Here is a news article from the time.

            http://www.cnn.com/US/9601/budget/01-27/pm/index.html

          • http://twitter.com/AlanFors Alan Fors

            I say again, it was a standoff about passing a budget, and the failure to pass a budget is what shut down the government.
            Speaker Gingrich pulled the same crap at that time as Speaker Boehner is pulling now – threatening to not raise the debt limit if they didn’t/don’t get thier way, but the link is/was manufactured. The debt limit was increased in 95 then so the country did not default, but a budget was not passed until after a shutdown.

          • mrbrink

            “Yes, the R’s did a really crappy job of managing the deficit when they were in power, but that is largely irrelevant to the greatest threat to our bond rating….our deficit and debt.”

            “Crappy job” doesn’t even begin to describe what they did to mismanage this country’s institutions.

            And all that is irrelevant to right now?!

            Did you just blah, blah, blah the work of three Republican presidents accumulating over ten trillion in “our” debt, nurturing an environment of banking scandals, concentrated wealth, and resource-sucking militarism?

            That’s some of the craziest shit I’ve read all day. And you read, “debts and deficit” all wrong.

            The greatest threat to our bond rating is incompetence, mismanagement, misappropriation of resources.

            The republican party are collectively threatening to purposefully jerk the American wheel off a fucking cliff. That sort of crazy does not go unnoticed by the murmuring “confidence fairies.”

            The GOP has zero credibility and their current actions in this crisis of their making is more than enough proof(for honest and sane people) of their mentally defective leadership.

            Crazy right wing republican people who run up debt to distribute national wealth to millionaires and billionaires during time of war and shaky confidence are what would “hurts our bond rating.”

            Your bullshit contribution to democracy hurts our fucking bond rating.

    • Dan_in_DE

      .. yeah, Nicole – he’s got a point. You really should have used italics instead of all caps.

      /snark

  • Robert Scalzi

    First let me apologize for my profanity laced tirades last week before my much needed RnR . I probably should have stayed the heck away from my keyboard . Sorry for being a huge dick. now onto this post

    I have found that it is in my interests to ignore teh Troll who comes here trying to stir up trouble…”you know who you are Freakazoid troll”… he has nothing to offer, and in my opinion, engaging this idiot at all is a complete waste of time and energy.

    like the sign I saw on my camping trip (slightly edited)

    Please do not feed the trolls

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1655290390 Steven Skelton

      Apology accepted Robert. That’s the nicest thing you ever said about me :)

      • http://twitter.com/bphoon Brian C

        I really don’t think he was apologizing to you, necessarily…