Peak Sirota

This is it. This is the Sirota Singularly where light itself disappears into a black hole.

On the contrary, Zimmerman’s presumption of guilt and his subsequent actions mimic those of his own government, and therefore reflect a larger attitudinal shift in the nation at large

Remember, in the same year that saw Zimmerman kill Martin, Zimmerman’s president, Barack Obama, extrajudicially executed Anwar al-Awlaki and then his 16-year-old son, without charging either of the two U.S. citizens with a single crime. [...]

Explaining the Zimmerman-like aggression against the Awlakis and thousands of others who find themselves targeted by U.S. drone strikes missiles, the federal government later offered up the Zimmerman Principle, repeating the same sentiment that Zimmerman expressed during his cellphone call to non-emergency responders.

President Obama is just like George Zimmerman, a wannabe vigilante hunting “fucking coons” and “fucking punks” at night who he deems to be out of place in their own neighborhoods because they’re black and scary.

Aside from being one of the most offensive things I’ve read recently, even more offensive than the words of characters such as Rush Limbaugh and Gerald Rivera, this is a gross dismissal of the reality faced by African Americans every single day in America. This idea that ‘we’re all threats now’ defies reality, because we aren’t all treated as threats as young African Americans are from the day they’re born. That is unless the very white Sirota has been pulled over for driving while black or stopped and frisked for walking while black. How about wearing a hoodie while black?

But let’s keep it real — Sirota is basically saying that President Obama, like George Zimmerman, is an angry hot-head with anger management issues who stalks and kills people for racially-motivated reasons. And he says this apparently without recognizing that the president himself is a person of color who knows full well what members of the African American community face on a daily basis in places like Chicago where he was a community organizer.

And let’s not forget Zimmerman was also kicked out of college and accused of molestation by a family member. He’s a sick fuck who David Sorta is openly comparing to the president.

At this point I’m not sure why Sirota doesn’t just dispense the pleasantries and call the president a nigger. That is very clearly what his opinion of him is. He paints a picture of an angry black man who never has second thoughts or even a conscience. He kills people with reckless abandon, didn’t you know?

It’s funny that Sirota also goes on to cite the fake NSA scandal as further evidence to support his premise because that’s another good example of him having no clue whatsoever. To people of color, the idea that they may be profiled is a fact of life. For David Sirota and his ilk, the notion that the NSA or other intelligence agencies may be profiling them is a shocking revelation. And he’s more than willing to co-opt the prolonged scrutiny of other races to justify his own feelings of profound victimhood.

Salon should be embarrassed. I’m embarrassed for them.

This entry was posted in Drones, George Zimmerman, Racism, WTF and tagged , , . Bookmark the permalink.
  • missliberties

    He sounds just like the wing nut fruitcakes that comment on Politico. Travyon Martin/ Obama ….. rambling conspiracy theories, Obama is evil.

    Sirota/Zimmerman liberal fruitcake gargles… authoritarianism/ police state….. rambling theories, Obama is evil.

    Sirota was a talk show host on my local progressive talk radio station for a while. I couldn’t stand him then and still can’t stand him now. He and Greenwald are cut from the same cloth, except I think Greenwald might be a little smarter and thus more dangerous.

    What is with all these fools and ‘connecting the dots’ and all roads lead to Obama is a horrible monster.

    Mr. Sirota, you are dismissed.

    • JarekAF

      Continue to misread his article at your peril. He’s not saying Obama is evil. He’s merely pointing out the hypocrisy among partisan liberals. We kill plenty of brown people based solely on suspicion, the vast majority of whom haven’t actually done anything wrong or pose a threat to the United States. Liberals yawn. But when Zimmerman does it to Trayvon, somehow Liberals take note.

      It was wrong when Zimmerman racially profiled Trayvon and then based on that racism, went out, got in a fight and ended up killing him.

      And it’s wrong when President Obama, based solely on suspicion, kills a bunch of brown people.

      Google: signature strikes. Obama said he was ending them in his big speech a couple months ago; turns out, it was only CIA signature strikes. JSOC still does signature strikes. And if you don’t know what they are, they’re essntially racial profiling for drone strikes in the Muslim world. If they see a bunch of people in a known “trouble area” behaving in a certain way, then that’s fair game for a drone strike.

      The lack of empathy is astounding. Every living human being is precious. It’s wrong when we kill Muslims over there outside of due process or an actual freaking war. Just as it’s wrong for George Zimmerman to play police officer and take the law into his own hands.

      • missliberties

        Say hi to Alex Jones and Lyndon LeRouche for us.

        You are out of your freaking mind. hashtag#FUJarekAF

        • JarekAF

          So again, you don’t have a substantive rebuke, other than name calling?

          So you’re cool with dead brown people at American hands, so long as it’s not in America. Good to know.

          • missliberties

            asshole of the day hashtag#FUJarekAF

          • Kerry Reid

            Please, tell me what you have against “yellow” people that you would cite as “progressive” presidents a man who allowed thousands of Koreans to be killed by a coup government (Jimmy Carter) and Cambodians to be bombed (Richard Nixon)? Were you being facetious? Did you just not know this about their histories? Or were you giving them the benefit of the doubt that apparently white presidents get to have that must be denied the black ones?

            For the record, I think Carter had more good ideas than bad ones and was hamstrung by a clusterfuck of world events and a feckless Congress. He fucked up with the Korean coup, but that, by itself, doesn’t make me think he’s a sociopath. Nixon did some things right, too (EPA, anyone?), but to think HE is a better “progressive” than Obama is loony-tunes reasoning.

          • nathkatun7

            “For the record, I think Carter had more good ideas than bad ones and was hamstrung by a clusterfuck of world events and a feckless Congress”

            I agree! But President Obama inherited a world which was ten times worse than what Carter inherited. He also inherited an economy on the brink of total collapse. Although Congress was not always friendly to Jimmy carter it was no where near as hostile to him as has this Congress with the insane Republicans who have done everything in their power to block everything he tried to do.

            By any objective standards, President Obama has been an excellent President. I say that because I’ve lived under 10 presidents, beginning with JFK! No other President in my lifetime inherited such a mess as he did. Yet he has remained steady and focused and managed to turn the country around. He saved the country from a catastrophic economic depression. He ended the war in Iraq as he promised and he is busy winding down the one in Afghanistan. He has decimated the Al Qaida Leadership. He helped pass major legislations like ACA, Wall Street Reform, and repeal of DADT. He has done all that while putting up with relentless attacks and visceral hatred from the Teabag Republicans, pseudo liberals pretending to be holier than thou progressives, and the unethical mainstream media that many times acts as a propaganda arm of the Republican party.

      • i_a_c

        Please spare the false equivalencies. Let’s clarify something for those slow on the uptake: Barack Obama does not bomb people because they’re brown. You can go ahead and defend those who put black people in the same category as racist thugs and terrorists at your own peril.

        • JarekAF

          Barack Obama does not bomb people because they’re brown.
          Maybe not because they’re brown. But he sure as heck gets away with it because they are.

          • Victor_the_Crab

            You’re sick! Get help! Take pills. Lots of pills!!!

          • missliberties

            good advice!

            or could it be that he has already taken too many!!!! hmmmm…..

          • Victor_the_Crab

            And washed it all down with the Kool-Aid Greenwald and Sirota served him.

          • i_a_c

            Again with the verbiage that implies something criminal is going on. The president is not “getting away with” anything. He’s doing what he was elected to do. You can disagree with what the American people expect to be done with terrorists, and Lord knows I have plenty of disagreement myself, but to put the president in the same boat as someone who killed a young black man because of the way he looked is wrongheaded at best. It’s unacceptable.

          • JarekAF

            You can disagree with what the American people expect to be done with terrorists, and Lord knows I have plenty of disagreement myself, but to put the president in the same boat as someone who killed a young black man because of the way he looked is wrongheaded at best.

            But that’s precisely the point. The vast majority we kill are NOT terrorists. Abdulrahman was a 16 year old who was never alleged to be a terrorist of any kind.

            But you (and everyone else) just assume he was because his name is freaking Abdulrahman. That’s pretty close to racial profiling.

            If he only killed terrorists, then that’d be great. But the vast majority are civilians, who are killed in a vicious manner. This is the height of privilege and for my fellow liberals to get so angry when called out on this . . . well, it’s a little discouraging.

          • i_a_c

            I didn’t assume shit. Fuck you, and goodbye.

          • JarekAF

            If you didn’t assume, then how do you explain you being ok with our president killing a child in Yemen and calling him a terrorist. He wasn’t a terrorist. He was an American boy. But you’re not bothered at all?

          • Badgerite

            The person who took him to Yemen and put him in the line of fire in the first place was his father, the Al Queda spokesman and spiritual and operational guide for the young recruit who he sent with a bomb in his pants to try to blow up and airliner full of people. Not exactly skittles and iced tea.

          • Badgerite

            No, we assume that because his father was the spokesmen for and in the hierarchy of Al Queda in Yemen. Now as I understand it, he was not the target that day, but I imagine there was some intelligence and it is not a stretch to assume he might have been in the company of someone who was an associate of his father in the Al Queda. And lest you tell me that we are not at war with anyone in Yemen let me just refer you to the interview Al Awlaki gave to Al-Jazeera where he claimed it was every good American Muslim’s duty to attack and kill non-Muslim Americans. Preferably ones in uniform but if none in uniform were readily available then anyone off the street. In other words, civilians. Any civilian. Anywhere. Your attempt to make some kind of moral equivalency here is ridiculous. Go away.

          • DHaradaStone

            No, the vast majority are NOT civilians. All of the reputable estimates indicate that the vast majority of those killed are militants. http://goo.gl/GAoEB

          • JarekAF

            1. Those are only drones. So it excludes Tomahawk strikes like this: US cluster bombs ‘killed 35 women and children’ http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/yemen/7806882/US-cluster-bombs-killed-35-women-and-children.html

            2. Every models undercount civilians as they only use “confirmed” civilian figures.

            3. It’s official government policy to treat every military aged male as a militant, until proven otherwise.

            4. There’s simply no official figure. Every killing is classified. Oversight is very much needed.

          • DHaradaStone

            Yes, that’s why we didn’t go to war against Italy and Germany or pro-Nazi partisans in Eastern Europe following Japan’s attack on Pearl Harbor. Oh wait . . . . In playing host to Al Qaeda and sheltering its leaders and members, the Taliban were culpable for the 9/11 attacks. It’s not “guilt by association.” The Taliban effectively declared war on the U.S. on 9/11 and in its aftermath. The counts I cited include those of independent groups. Those relied on by Greenwald and his ilk effectively take the Taliban at their word, because, you know, terrorists who shoot little girls in the head at point blank range for sport never lie.

          • JarekAF

            Yes, we’re better than the Taliban. They kill little girls on purpose. We kill them because of indifference.

            I’m relying on the numbers provided by the bureau of investigative affairs and they say their numbers undercount because they only used confirmed civilian kills. It’s still a system that treats all dead as militants, unless proven otherwise.

          • Kerry Reid

            Whereas bombing them because they’re “yellow,” as in your “progressive” example of Richard Nixon, is clearly okay with you.

          • Daniel Crowe

            Jarek.. actually the drone program was started by the “BUSH” admin, Obama has continued it and expanded it and saved the american lives of poor folks that likely had no option other then military service to better themselves. I’m not a fan of war at all let alone the 1 in western asia ..However as an adult black male i understand how folks in those regions feel…

  • i_a_c

    Only a white liberal who stands with civil rights-hating Rand Paul on the issues of ginned up white paranoia such as DRONEZ and NSA could compare the first black president to a racist gun toting killer, and Trayvon Martin to an unrepentant al-Qaeda terrorist who killed civilians for a living. Sirota, while beating horses to a pulp over his pet causes, casts black men into the same category as murderers and terrorists. He probably laments the fact that the president “always gets away” with it and is “up to no good.”

  • Claude Weaver

    I say this with every fiber of my being. I say this with all of the energy, all of the rage, all of the pure undiluted force I can muster in my body. I say this with to express the totality of my feelings about this, and anyone who would do or say the same. I say this to express what the entirety of human language can only barely express:

    FUCK YOU, DAVID SIROTA.

    • missliberties

      Maybe someone should start a twitter hashtag. #fuckuSirota//

    • JarekAF

      Why? Because you believe the life of Trayvon is worth more than Abdulrahman Awlawki’s?

      Both were children.. Both were innocent. AA was at a barbecue and Trayvon was walking home. Both posed absolutely no threat whatsoever at the time they were targeted.

      Why you so mad? I wish everyone who is as angry about Trayvon (and I’m pretty angry) was as angry as I have been about all the Brown people we kill on the regular “over there,” the vast majority of whom are completely innocent.

      • Claude Weaver

        Oh, yes, please defend him. Please try. And definitely do it while telling people who or what to be mad about. Because that always goes well, YOU FUCKING ASSHOLE.

        I wonder where was all this comparison BEFORE the verdict. I wonder where all the concern Sirota apparently had for Martin was BEFORE it became a convenient way to smear the president he loathes. Does Sirota whine nearly as much for the hundreds of thousands of dark-skinned Americans who are killed or imprisoned in his own country? Where was he with any of them? Did he spend months on their defense? Did he lambast anyone over them? Since we are going to go down the “YOU CAN’T CARE ABOUT THIS UNLESS YOU CARE ABOUT MY STUFF TOO” train of thought.

        How about the stagnating Congress that could easily strip the president of his extra military powers, but refuse to do so because they are more focused on keeping gays unmarried and women pregnant? Oh not to mention the gutting of the Voting Rights Act and the clusterfuck over immigration reform. Let’s not forget the crime of Gitmo, which Congress have actually prevented him from closing.

        All liberal causes, all not treated with even a fraction of the indignation Sirota and his lot have for drone strikes.

        Sirota is a concern troll. He wants to pretend like he gives a damn about anybody outside his circlejerk of similar-minded sycophants, but he doesn’t.

        And again, for the cheap seats, for using the death of a young man who never got the chance to have an opinion on drones or anything, all for walking down the street with damn candy and a drink; for equating a president that has fought for more progressive ideals in a more hostile environment than any president in the last 60 years to a coward and bully that ignored police instructions to play out his own self-indulgent action film fantasy; for being a general dickwad, I say:

        FUCK YOU, DAVID SIROTA.

        • missliberties

          Right on brother. I am sick of these idiots and I normally don’t think swearing is polite on the internet. But I say go for it. I am sick of these smug idiots.

        • JarekAF

          Sirota has written plenty about how the war on drugs is a war on minorities, about stop-and-frisk and all the other ways our government keeps POC down.

          So again, after all these words, you cannot bring yourself to evaluate the merits of his argument? You’re just angry with the conclusion he draws.

          Let me tell you something. Obama is about 1,000X better than McCain and Romeny. But he isn’t god. He isn’t pastor Obama. He isn’t your dad or uncle. He’s the president and when he f—’s up, he should be criticized. We’ve killed so many brown folks abroad but you do not give a f— about it. Only here. If our president kills them (or authorizes the killing), then it must be ok.

          for equating a president that has fought for more progressive ideals in a more hostile environment than any president in the last 60 year

          Bulls–t. What progressive ideals besides the fact that he’s the first person of color to be elected POTUS, has he fought for?

          Immigration –> Broken up more Latino families than Bush by far.
          War on Drugs –> Arresting and cracking down on legal under state law marijuana, including threatening the District Attorney of Oakland with prison.
          Gay marriage –> Way to lead from behind
          Healthcare Reform –> Thank goodness we have that public option he pushed for.
          Women’s reproductive rights –> pushed for an OTC age limit for the morning after pill, over ruling the doctors.
          War on Terror –> force feeds 100+ innocent men, covers up Bush’s torture and prevents any accountability, kills countless civilians away from any battlefield, presides over a failed surge in Afghanistan that’s killed more Americans than during all of Bush’s years in Afghanistan.

          Yes, Obama is better than Bush. But let’s not delude ourselves here.

          • blackdaug

            Good god….do you really think we haven’t seen this shit before!?
            Do you think somebody here is going to do a point by point take down for the 1000th time?

          • missliberties

            letter by letter coma by coma and after a thousand comments the result will be the same. Jakes deduction will be you are an Obama cultist and you support murder just like George Zimmerman.

          • missliberties

            The only reason so, is because we are responding to said person. There is zero point in trying to reason with people like this. The best recourse is mocking.

            HasHTag #BadCrazy@JarekAF

          • Kerry Reid

            Well, let’s go with the war on drugs — Obama signed the Fair Sentencing Act. For starters. Oh, but that mostly affects “brown people,” not white stoners, so fuck it, right.

          • mrbrink

            Immigration– It’s the Democrats leading the charge to fix that broken system, with this president’s signature practically begging for a solution. Same with the DREAM Act.

            War on Drugs– I love this one because you and your hippy uncle have never seen this much weed being produced, bought and sold in this country. If this president is “cracking down” he’s doing a piss poor job of it. And Fair Sentencing Act alone means more empathy is being injected into the system. So, you’re wrong.

            Gay marriage– Stupid. Gay marriage has never had a better friend in government than this president. DADT and DOMA have been vanquished as a result of this president’s actions and quiet leadership. So, you’re wrong again.

            Healthcare reform: healthcare is now a protected right, Medicare is in better shape, seniors are paying less for drugs, pre-exisiting condition discrimination abolished. Healthcare is being expanded. Wrong again

            Women’s reproductive rights–.Are you serious with this shit? In the war on women, you’re going to call out the president as some sort of women-hater because of an age restriction on Plan B? You should hit yourself in the face with a probing wand.

            War On Terror– This is what it’s all about, isn’t it? This is what Greenwald, Scahill, and Sirota are all selling books about. You are the result of their book salesmanship. I can tell because you only have three things to pretend to know enough about to impeach the president– This president’s lawless, murderous ways, right? What do you know about Pakistan’s nuclear arsenal, Afghanistan’s trillions in power shifting resources, or what it takes to wind down a pile of shit for an inherited foreign policy? This administration has encouraged democratic uprisings all over Africa and the Middle east. His policies since Cairo have been an international thumbs up in U.S. support for the actions that are continuing to lead to democratic uprisings. His policies have toppled dictators with NATO allies, got Bin Laden, secured loose nuke stockpiles, on and on.

            It must be nice to be able to break down this entire presidency to a public option, delayed plan b for kids, the weed supply, leading from behind(whatever the fuck that means), civilian deaths in terrorist hot spots, and I must be missing something else(Bradley Manning, maybe?), but if all the progress and good that has been accomplished during this presidency were a rock, it would be a mountain of a boulder, and it would pound your spitball of an objection into dust.

            You’re the epitome of liberal white privilege. It must be nice to have all these vague, abstract concerns to spew into the poisoned well of vote-depressing politics and still keep your vagina from being probed.

          • Badgerite

            You present false equivalencies ( Zimmerman/ Obama or Martin/ and the son of an Al Queda operative who was killed while in Yemen). 1) his father was a member of the leadership of Al Queda in Yemen. 2) the USS Cole was docked in Yemen refueling when Al Queda took advantage of that to attack (19 US Service people were killed) 3) because the government there is weak and Al Queda is active , Yemen is an inherently dangerous place. According to officials, the boy was not the target that day but it is hardly beyond the realm of possibility that he was having lunch with someone who was, given his father’s position in the Al Queda leadership there.

      • DHaradaStone

        Obama did not stalk Abdulrahman. He was NOT targeted. He was in the wrong place at the wrong time. Not surprising since his sociopath father dragged him to a war zone in total disregard of his safety.

  • missliberties

    At least Salon washed its hands of Greenwald.

    Lawrence O’Donnell called out Salon last week for their shoddy reporting.

    But they still have whack-a-loon Sirota!!! These are the supposedly enlightened liberal voices in America. !!! Hopefully no one is listening to their insane rantings.

    • beulahmo

      Actually, I hope other liberal commentators, journalists, and grassroots activists witness Greenwald and Sirota stepping in it over and over enough times that they finally reject their vainglorious rantings and relegate Sirota and Greenwald to the fringe obscurity they deserve.

      • Victor_the_Crab

        Fingers crossed big time!

  • Aaron T. Starks

    Sirota’s dislike of President Obama seems very Greenwaldian.

    • JarekAF

      I think it has to do with all the innocent brown people he kills. And the innocent brown people being force fed.

      I’m just guessing. But hey, the GOP is trying to outlaw abortion and treat the uterus as communal property, so we can just ignore the f’d up stuff Obama does too.

      • beulahmo

        “Or are we not allowed to be pissed by that? Or does that make me Emoprog for being pissed that we kill so many innocent brown people . . . ? I guess their lives were worth less than Trayvon’s. ”

        Save your effort and quit trying to sell us that load of shit. You know goddamn well that’s not what we’re telling you and you know goddamn well that’s not a fair description of our position.

        But to answer your question about what you’re allowed to do, here’s my answer: NO. You’re fucking NOT allowed to compare President Obama to George Zimmerman and expect to have us nod our heads and engage in sober discussion about the merits of that argument.

        Oh, and one other thing — fuck you too, you silly, tiresome concern troll.

        • JarekAF

          Save your effort and quit trying to sell us that load of shit. You know goddamn well that’s not what we’re telling you and you know goddamn well that’s not a fair description of our position.

          Uh, no I don’t know that. Have you see any factually accurate rebuttals?

          You’re fucking NOT allowed to compare President Obama to George Zimmerman

          How about you phrase it, the commander in chief of the military with George Zimmerman? Is that better. Less personal.

          • Victor_the_Crab

            How about the President of the United States of America to a racist fat slob with a penis extender called a gun looking for trouble. That’s more what you’re looking for. You’re welcome, tool.

          • villemar

            Fuck you and your faux concern over “brown people.” Also, kill yourself.

          • JarekAF

            Fuck you and your faux concern over “brown people.” Also, kill yourself.

            Dude, what is your malfunction that you’d actually write something like that. Because I call you out on your privilege and back it up with evidence?

            It’s cool. Those crazy Moslems probably deserved it. They’re all terrorists. Shit happens in war (even when it really isn’t a war).

          • Badgerite

            You do no such thing you pompous twit. Yes ,as a matter of fact those crazy Muslims did deserve it. And though you probably don’t want to know, one of my favorite singers is Khaled. An Algerian Rai singer who had to flee his country and now lives in France because some of those crazy Muslims thought it would be a good idea to kill Rai singers as they did not seem pious enough to them. Jerk.

        • missliberties

          He really should be writing up huge intellectual screeds at WorldNetDaily. They would eat this stuff up. Zimmerman/Obama *exactly* the same.

          • JarekAF

            They would eat this stuff up. Zimmerman/Obama *exactly* the same.

            Yo, no one is saying that, ok. What he’s saying is that the Obama administration, like GZ, kill people based on suspicion. We presume they’re up to no good and kill them. We’ve killed so many children. I don’t understand why you cannot acknowledge that simple fact.

            writing up huge intellectual screeds at WorldNetDaily.

            Cite one thing I wrote that’s WND worthy. Those people are nuts. There’s not one thing I wrote that’s factually inaccurate.

            You just cannot comprehend that any standard left of center democrat might be disagree with our war on terror policy, especially for moral reasons (dead civilians). There is no reason for those people to die. Some of us are pissed.

      • Victor_the_Crab

        It makes you a douchebag that’s concern trolling for kicks, asshole.

        • JarekAF

          No. I’d like to actually hear some of you guys acknowledge how we kill a ton of brown folk based primarily on suspicion. And reconcile that with our justifiable outrage re: the Zimmerman verdict.

          I’m being serious so stop name calling for a half second.
          I try engaging my fellow liberals on this position because I believe we’re the only one’s who can change this.

          The GOP loves war and doesn’t give a shit if we kill a thousand Muslims or Arabs. They’re heartless. But us liberals do care (I think, or thought at least until I got all the yawns). It sickens me that we kill all these people and nobody gives a flying f—. It’s just something in the back pages. it’s wrong. Every innocent life we take in this war on terror is a tragedy. And they’re just as tragic as Trayvon’s loss.

          • blackdaug

            Serious question here: Do you honestly believe anybody in this comment section thinks you are a liberal or that you care one shit about brown people anywhere? Do you?

          • missliberties

            crickets……!!

            The only dark person he really is passionate about is Obama, for whom he has a white hot hatred.

          • JarekAF

            What have I written that leads you to believe that I’m not liberal in my orientation?

          • villemar

            Unsuccessful Troll is Unsuccessful.

          • Victor_the_Crab

            And, like I said before, with “liberals” like you, the right doesn’t need any enemies. So go fuck yourself up the ass with a prickly cactus dildo, you insufferable fuck!

          • Kerry Reid

            News Flash, Sonny — you live in a country founded on genocide and slavery. Killing “all these people” is baked into the American dream — it’s just that white guys had the privilege of ignoring it for a long time.

            Just because people find it disgusting that Sirota equates the first black president with a psychopath who stalked and killed an innocent black kid is not the same as saying “Yay war! Yay innocent bystanders!”

            If you want people to take you seriously, don’t make stupid arguments in support of false equivalencies. And for god’s sake don’t cite Richard Nixon as a progressive president, as you apparently did in all seriousness earlier. Unless you want to talk to a shitload of Cambodians.

          • Badgerite

            Seriously, you expect the world and people to live up to your ridiculous expectations of absolute justice. What are you, three. The world is a very imperfect place. You are aware of that. Do you have any idea how many innocent people were killed by the allies in WWII? It was a vicious, brutal war. But it had to be waged. Period.

      • Kerry Reid

        Cuz who cares about uteruses? Fucking Stupid Gonadal politics, AMIRITE RALPH NADER?

      • Badgerite

        Here’s the thing. The overwhelming majority of those ‘brown people’ that are being killed are part of an organization called ( say it with me now so you remember) Al Queda. Many years ago now the leader of Al Queda, the now dead brown person Osama Bin Ladin declared a Fatwa (War) on the United States and suddenly a lot of things American started blowing up. One of those things was the USS Cole which was docked in Yemen at the time for refueling. The people who blew up those things American and specifically the USS Cole are still running around in Yemen trying to kill people, preferably American people, and blow things up. One of the leaders of that group is the now gone Al Awlaki. So, no, you are not allowed to be pissed because the President of these United States is doing his job as commander and chief. Okay!

  • blackdaug

    “On the contrary, Zimmerman’s presumption of guilt and his subsequent actions mimic those of his own government, and therefore reflect a larger attitudinal shift in the nation at large.”

    David Brooks…is that you? Will there be hippies to blame soon?

    • missliberties

      yes. specifically david sirota

  • Raina

    fucking fuckwad fucker sanctimonious piece of shit.

  • DHaradaStone

    Sirota gives white liberals a bad name.

    • itgurl_29

      He’s not a white liberal. He’s a bigot who pretends to be liberal for money.

      • JarekAF

        He’s a bigot who pretends to be liberal for money.

        Any evidence of Sirota’s bigotry?

        • missliberties

          We want evidence! Or STFU. Besides that your comma is in the wrong place and Zimmerman/Obama/murderers/Dronezzzzzzzz!

          • JarekAF

            I didn’t use a comma.

  • http://keenepointofview.com/ Keene Point of View

    I “get” what he’s trying to say, but co-opting pain to make a political point is low-ball. Also, this is the worst example to use.

    • JarekAF

      but co-opting pain

      What about the pain felt by all those nameless brown people we kill based on “suspicion”? Does it not count?

      I doubt you were even aware that the Obama administration automatically classifies all males (between the age of 17 and 50) killed in in their drone strikes to be militants. Even if they weren’t.

      Sirota’s been consistent on this.

      • missliberties

        Dronezzzzzzzzzz! buzzzzzzz yawn.

        Meanwhile here in America people are dying every day on the streets from poverty. Americans are murdering Americans right here in America.

        • JarekAF

          Thanks for confirming. Dead brown people abroad = yawn.

          That is the height of privilege my friend. And you’re one big hypocrite. It was wrong when GZ killed TM but it’s yawn when our government kills brown people abroad.

          • Victor_the_Crab

            Here’s a suggestion, fuckface. Start caring about the people getting screwed around at home first. It’s idiots like you that are trying to divide liberals here, making it easier for the right to take over America. Then, the brown people living overseas will be the least of your worries.

      • http://keenepointofview.com/ Keene Point of View

        It’s not that I don’t care about their pain, it’s just that I don’t care about someone writing about their pain and applying it to people grieving and outraged over the Zimmerman verdict, taking them to task over not being upset over President Obama’s actions in military strikes. Can I get through my stages of grief first before someone polices my emotions for me and tells me where I need to apply my pain and outrage?

        • JarekAF

          Dude, nothing wrong with being outraged about the Zimmerman verdict. I sure am! I still don’t get how he wasn’t convicted of negligent homicide, considering, he was negligent in leaving the car with a gun and by pretending to be a cop.

  • Drift Glass
    • beulahmo

      Heh.

      “Instead, with metronomic predictability, after expending the absolute bare minimum of perfunctory yadda yadda yadda word/pounds necessary to drag your fickle eyes away from George Zimmerman and back to the One and Only Real Story (™) in Christendom:”

      Exactly.

  • Victor_the_Crab

    Oh sweet Jesus Fuck. I hope Chez rips a new one out of the Serially Stupid David Sirota.

  • Norbrook

    Sirota is one of those who thought, after the 2006 & 2010 elections, that they’d become the liberal equivalent of the conservative pundits. Lots of television appearances, major book sales, and of course, consultation on a regular basis about policy. When none of that appeared, they decided it had to be Obama’s fault, because after all, they were *responsible* for his winning. Never mind that they’d only jumped on his bandwagon after he’d beaten their favorite candidates, and their actual contribution was … miniscule.

    So mix some latent racism, a healthy dose of outraged entitlement, and a desperate need for attention, and you have … Sirota.

    • JarekAF

      Wow. So instead of spending a single word on the merit’s of his argument, which I happen to agree with, you’ve decided that he’s a phony who’s just bitter that he’s not higher up on the liberal pundit totem pole. I bet you get 20 up-votes.

      Maybe you’re the bigot for being indifferent to the brown people we kill? I guess privilege is like that. You don’t have to worry about it.

      • missliberties

        Sure. Anyone who disgrees with you is a murderer.

        Obama is a murderer. The US is responsible for murder. etc. etc. etc.

        Why don’t you do something to eradicate poverty and starvation, that causes acute death and suffering, instead of just wanking your smug useless finger in everyones face.

        • JarekAF

          Sure. Anyone who disgrees with you is a murderer.
          No, and I think you know that.

          Obama is a murderer. The US is responsible for murder. etc. etc. etc.

          Alleging that Obama himself is a murderer is a tad strong. Nevertheless, he signs off on the signature strike policies which knowingly leads to many innocent civilian deaths. Do we arrest everyone in bad neighborhoods, because we believe most of them are criminals? No!!! So why are we ok killing people, based on the suspicion that they’re up to no good! It’s privilege.

          I can relate to Trayvon. We all have friends who’ve been racially profiled like him (and myself). So we can relate to that. It’s harder for us to relate to Americans living in Yemen or non-Americans living in Pakistan and Yemen and elsewhere. But it doesn’t change the fact that we continue to kill countless innocent people over there.

          Read this article: http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2013/06/20/194542/boys-death-highlights-anger-some.html#.UeR84Y2PPnh

          And tell me why it’s ok for us to have killed this 10 year old boy: Abdulaziz Hassan Huraydan

          • missliberties

            Go scrawl on a site where you think someone cares.

            I don’t buy your bullshit. I am sick of your bullshit.

            Right now I am more concerned about the civil rights of minorities in America. Will they be shot by bigots who hate black people? Will they be able to vote.

            Go play in the swamp with your Obamaistheevil friends. Preferably a swamp filled with quicksand.

            Just like Bill O’Reilly. You never shut up.

          • JarekAF

            No, I get it. This is the Obama bubble. Obama is always right. And anyone who criticizes him is Bill O’Reilly or Alex Jones.

            Keep living in the bubble!

          • Victor_the_Crab

            You’re the piece of shit comparing a kid walking home from the store one night minding his own business to a man who swore vengance on the United States. And you have the gall to criticize others for calling you out.

            FUCK YOU, ASSHOLE!!!

          • JarekAF

            a kid walking home from the store one night minding his own business to a man who swore vengance on the United States

            Abdulrahman Awlawki did no such thing (his father did). This is the 16 year old child who was minding his own business. He wasn’t up to trouble. But our government killed him anyway. This isn’t conspiracy theory s–t. These are facts.

            And what about all the other innocent’s we kill? Is that ok too?

            You realize the signature strike program is based solely on suspicion and behaviors? They don’t even know who they are most of the time, just that they’re leaving a “known” trouble spot.

            That’d be like arresting, convicting and sentencing everyone leaving a high crime area (except with death).

          • Victor_the_Crab

            You are fucking paranoid! You have drunken every drop of the Kool-Aid Greenwald and Sirota have served you, and now you are over here trolling hard and fast here.

            Like I said: FUCK OFF, ASSHOLE!!!

          • missliberties

            or he is a wingnut posing as a liberal

          • Victor_the_Crab

            A concern troll, to be precise.

          • missliberties

            Hashtag #BadCrazy

          • JarekAF

            Is it so hard to believe that some Liberals are pissed about all the dead brown civilians we kill?

            What Kool-Aid have I drunk? Certainly not the Kool-Aid that said Obama is the most progressive president of our era, which someone else said above (or something like that).

          • Victor_the_Crab

            If you haven’t figured that out by now then you are too stupid to live, you fucking piece of shit.

          • nasani

            So, who is the most progressive President of our era? Please name one!

          • JarekAF

            Jimmy Carter. Or Richard Nixon.

          • Kerry Reid

            This would be Jimmy “Kwangju Massacre” Carter? (http://www.villagevoice.com/2002-10-15/news/carter-hounded-by-kwangju-massacre/full/)

            And Richard “Secret Bombing of Cambodia” Nixon?

          • blackdaug

            Yeah, I didn’t even bother with that one. When you are listing Nixon as a progressive …what do you even say to that? Were you raised on another planet?

            This guy hates Obama …hard..and he loves Glenn…!

            Cant resist defending him in fact. Guess he thinks Sirota is a brother in the order of Green.

          • Kerry Reid

            Maybe he should ask Glenn what he has against all the “brown people” in Brazil who are wiped out by security forces.

          • nathkatun7

            Richard Nixon? Now I know you are not only creepy, but you are ignorant! Hundreds of thousands of Americans and millions of Vietnamese, Cambodians, Thai were decimated by Nixon’s escalation of bombing. Can you enter Law school without a minimum knowledge of U.S. history, especially history as recent as the 60s and 70s?

          • JarekAF

            I’m well aware of Nixon’s bombing of Cambodia and him and Kissinger are war criminals for it, IMHO. But on many other matters he was very progressive, including in health care reform, affirmative action, the environment, equal rights amendment etc . . . http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/09/03/1013155/-Nixon-more-liberal-than-Obama#

            Hundreds of thousands of Americans and millions of Vietnamese, Cambodians, Thai were decimated by Nixon’s escalation of bombing

            And hundreds and thousands of people have been killed by Obama’s needless escalation in Afghanistan. That surge. You’re pissed about that too? Or are we back to the “Obama has no choice since the GOP will call him bad names if he doesn’t bomb “those” people”.

          • Badgerite

            How many people died at Hiroshima or Nagasaki? How many would have died had we invaded mainland Japan instead of bombing Hiroshima or Nagasaki? Probably more. How do you make a decision like that then? In your world view, when fighting a war we cannot kill any innocents or you will cry. So then, how do you fight the war at all? And keep in mind, if you do not fight the war, brown people will come and blow up your buildings and outlaw music and insist that you become a Muslim. Now the ‘innocent kid’, and I have no idea if that is the case or not, was taken to a dangerous part of the world where a civil war has been raging for years and he was taken there by his father. Officials say he was not the target of that strike, but since he was his father’s son it is entirely plausible that they thought an Al Queda associate of his father was there that day who was the target. If your father is involved in a war and you go into that war zone with him, you assume the risk. That is the way the real world works.

          • JarekAF

            How many people died at Hiroshima or Nagasaki?

            Yes, because 19 thugs with box cutters = Imperial Japan.

            Now the ‘innocent kid’, and I have no idea if that is the case or not, was taken to a dangerous part of the world where a civil war has been raging for years and he was taken there by his father.

            I appreciate you addressing the claim on the merits instead of just name-calling. Realize what you’re saying though. You’re implying that anyone who lives in Yemen is fair game because they live in a rough part of the world.

            If your father is involved in a war and you go into that war zone with him, you assume the risk. That is the way the real world works.

            Except he wasn’t in a war zone when he was killed. And many people live in what you’re calling a war zone and they certainly aren’t assuming that living in Yemen = accepting risk of American drone strikes.

            If you actually care to know more, here’s the testimony by a young Yemeni Peace Activist describing what the drone strikes have done to his country and village in particular. Our policy helps AQ more than a living Anwar Awlawki ever could: http://www.judiciary.senate.gov/pdf/04-23-13Al-MuslimiTestimony.pdf

          • DHaradaStone

            Actually, those 19 thugs with box cutters caused more U.S. casualties than did the Empire of Japan in the attack on Pearl Harbor.

          • JarekAF

            Actually, those 19 thugs with box cutters caused more U.S. casualties than did the Empire of Japan in the attack on Pearl Harbor.

            So you really are doubling down and comparing those 19 guys to the Empire of Japan? Or the Taliban is like the Empire of Japan and Germany?

          • Badgerite

            No, your arguments are simply based a assumptions and on a world view that is not truthful or real.

          • Badgerite

            How many 10 year old boys are dying in Syria. You hold America to a standard that no country in the world lives up to. Certainly not one engaged in a war. Here is the choice. Al Queda is at war with us and please don’t tell me it is all our fault because we ‘radicalized’ them. They were radical long before we got there. If you insist that no mistakes get made, that no innocents die at our hand accidentally or otherwise, exactly how do you propose to fight these people? . And if we were to simply withdraw from the world, do you really believe they would take that as anything but a sign of weakness. This was what American did when radicals bombed the barracks of a Marine unit doing peacekeeping in Lebanon under Reagan. The radicals then viewed this as an invitation to attack. Osama Bin Ladin had the idea that the US was a ‘paper tiger’ that would not fight and would withdraw from death or causing death. This is why he was foolish enough to attack the US mainland in the first place. Your ‘utopian’ world has not arrived yet, if ever, and the country cannot behave as if it has.

          • JarekAF

            How many 10 year old boys are dying in Syria.

            Many. It’s an udder tragedy of the highest order. Though, it’s not the US behind it so I’m not sure what you expect me to do. I’m more concerned with atrocities committed in our name.

            If you insist that no mistakes get made, that no innocents die at our hand accidentally or otherwise, exactly how do you propose to fight these people?

            I get it that mistakes are made. But the type of mistakes and the frequency in which they are made go beyond just “carelessness” and enter straight up negligence territory. If you evaluate the instances closely, the vast majority of the mistakes are inexcusable.

            Osama Bin Ladin had the idea that the US was a ‘paper tiger’ that would not fight and would withdraw from death or causing death. This is why he was foolish enough to attack the US mainland in the first place.

            What do you mean it was a mistake for OBL? He won. We’ve bankrupted ourselves and helplessly mired ourselves in the middle-east by these 2 completely unnecessary wars (Afghanistan was justifiable at the beginning but 12-13 years later?!?! Come on).

            Also, OBL’s dead. AQ is about 200 people according to the DoD. We don’t need to kill all these people (most of whom are innocent) for a minor threat.

          • beulahmo

            I just have to insert a comment here:

            Now you are arguing in good faith. You raise valid points without resorting to accusations that our problem with Sirota’s rhetorical tactics is evidence of our endorsement of killing innocent civilians overseas. You’re not going to engage like-minded people with that kind of bullshit, and it boggles my mind that you would seriously be puzzled by that. Sirota’s not trying to engage us — he’s interested in pissing us off and then pointing and saying, “See?? Mindless authoritarians!” It’s bullshit. And it does nothing to build coalitions to get something done — in fact, it makes coalescing unlikely, and runs the risk of creating permanent rifts in the nations left-voting majority.

            Updated to add:

            Fuck. I just read one of your new responses and have to take back my comment that you’re now arguing in good faith. I spoke too soon.

            Tactics matter. If you want to engage and persuade, you’re going to have to understand proper proportion and acknowledge the full scope of the matter being discussed, or we’re going to assume that you’re arguing in bad faith. And no, your demonstrated tenacity doesn’t substitute for good faith.

            Until I see evidence of that from you, I’m done with you.

          • JarekAF

            I really have no clue what I said that makes you think I am or am not discussing these matters in good faith. I believe I cite facts that are factual and I’ve refrained from the petty name calling I’ve been receiving.

            Why don’t you educate me on the tactics that don’t get you called a right wing fucking troll on this thread? Is it hating Greenwald? It is excusing Obama for every single thing undertaken under his authority?

            I’ll tell you where I’m coming from. I hate all the innocent people we kill. Every time there’s a report I’m filled with anger and sadness of the helplessness I feel over these dead innocent civilians and the seeming indifference by my fellow liberals. And I believe, like David Sirota, that we’re able to get away with kliling so many civilians, because it’s people named Akbar and Abdual.

            We killed more children in one strike earlier this year, then died at Sandy Hook. Remember how painful Sandy Hook was. Seeing all those faces. And we do that to other people! And no one bats an eye.

            And look at all the people saying “Well, he was in a bad neighborhood” or “he was in a war zone, what do you expect,” and you’re going to tell me, that’s way different than GZ saying “he’s up to no good.” GZ was judge jury and executioner that day, and that’s very wrong. And I’m glad most of us can see that. I wish we’d also see it when our government does it abroad. And if Liberal pressure can get Obama to back off, then I’d be happy.

      • Norbrook

        Aside from the fact that Al-Awlaki was actively recruiting and training terrorists for strikes from America, and that he was living in a country that doesn’t have extradition with us, or to be honest, a terribly functional military or police force? An actual threat to the country? Why yes, he’s just like Trayvon Martin! Of course, I have yet to hear Sirota, Greenwald, or any of the other poutragers explain just how Al-Awlaki was supposed to be arrested, extradited here for trial from Yemen. Please give me your explanation, I’m in need of a good laugh.

        Oh, and the reason I said he’s bitter? Reality. He was running around shilling his new status back in 2008, basking in the attention. Then the book didn’t sell all that well, and his proposed appearances (which he’d talked about) didn’t happen. Same thing happened to Kos, come to think of it.

        • JarekAF

          Aside from the fact that Al-Awlaki was actively recruiting and training terrorists for strikes from America,

          1. You don’t actually know that for a fact. Nobody knows that for a fact. The closest thing was in the underwear bomber’s statement to the court when he plead guilty, in which he said, AA helped him. That’s the only actual evidence that’s ever been entered into the public record in the United States. That’s it. The rest has been unsupported allegations by the United States. Don’t get me wrong, I think AA was a bad dude. But I’m a fan of due process and making the government prove their case. Instead of shoot first, ask questions later (like Zimmerman).

          2. I’m talking about his 16 year old son who was killed in a different attack. No one’s ever alleged he was up to anything bad.

          3. And you forget about all the non-American civilians we killed. Isn’t one too many? Just because you live near a “bad guy” or share a car with a “terrorist” doesn’t mean you deserve to die.

          • Norbrook

            1) Yes, I do know that for a fact. No, it wasn’t just the underwear bomber’s statements, it was Al-Awlaki’s own statements and efforts. So, if we take him at his word, he’s a major terrorist recruiter and activist.

            2) His son was with other targets, and there’s a thing called “wrong place, wrong time.” Or, to use military speak, “shit happens.”

            3) Like it or not, and you don’t have to, and I don’t have to, the reality is that innocent people die in war zones. We do a much better job than anyone else in minimizing that, but it happens. It’d be nice if all the innocent civilians wouldn’t be anywhere near the guilty but that’s not the way the real world works, and it’s why the guilty like to be right in the middle of those civilians.

          • JarekAF

            Yemen isn’t a war zone. It isn’t remotely close to being a war zone. AA Sr. was a propagandist and he argued, stridently, that Muslims should commit jihad against the United States. Those are awful statements. But they’re also, last I checked, constitutionally protected free speech.

            We do a much better job than anyone else in minimizing [civilian casualties], but it happens.

            That’s a low bar and I don’t think that’s true. The fact that we kill people, when we have the option to capture them, undermines your claim

            I appreciate that you actually addressed my comments on the merits, instead of all the name-calling I’ve been receiving from everyone else.

          • nathkatun7

            “Yemen isn’t a war zone.” Your ignorance is showing! Was Afghanistan a war zone before 9/11? By the way, when are you volunteering for military service so you can show us how easy it is to capture terrorists and bring them to the U. S. for trial? I assume you are still fairly young. Sorita and Greenwald and Scahill can join you. Then you can come here and credibly preach to us how “we have the option to capture them.” You are just not credible when you preach on the keyboard in the comfort of your home.

          • JarekAF

            “Yemen isn’t a war zone.” Your ignorance is showing!

            There are areas of unrest, sure, but where AA jr. was killed wasn’t one of those areas.

            And what are you saying, we can kill anyone in Yemen. That it’s ok because AQAP exists in that country (like AQ existed in Germany and the US?).

            By the way, when are you volunteering for military service so you can show us how easy it is to capture terrorists and bring them to the U. S. for trial?

            Do you realize the implications of your advocacy above? it’s saying, since it may be difficult to capture and then actually prove that person X is a terrorist, let’s just kill them instead. And that’s what happens all the time. And that’s how we end up with so many dead civilians.

            You’re indifference is revealing. Those lives are just worth less than American lives.

          • Badgerite

            It is a war zone as far as Al Queda is concerned. It is the port of call where Al Queda attack the USS Cole and killed about 19 service people. So it’s not exactly Kansas. You rely on these ridiculous distinctions like ‘it isn’t a war zone’. Says who. In the real world, it most assuredly is. There is and has been for some time a raging civil war going on and Al Queda is in the thick of it. And, no, telling someone to kill someone else as it is your religious duty is not free speech, it is incitement to murder. Okay, now I have to call you a name because you have earned it. TWIT

          • JarekAF

            It is the port of call where Al Queda attack the USS Cole and killed about 19 service people. So it’s not exactly Kansas

            Ok, and how many people were killed in OKC?

            You rely on these ridiculous distinctions like ‘it isn’t a war zone’.

            Yes, that’s a rather meaningful distinction since you rely on it to justify our wonton killing of innocent’s there.

            I listen to experts like Gregory Johnson. There are areas of unrest, sure. But it’s not a war zone. There is a functioning government (which we essentially own). Here’s Yemeni Peace activist’ Fareah Al-Islami’s testimony to congress. http://www.judiciary.senate.gov/pdf/04-23-13Al-MuslimiTestimony.pdf

            He points out how it’s just BS that we couldn’t capture the people we target in our drone strikes. And how it terrorizes the people who live under the drones. Think of the world’s worst kind of stop and frisk . . . this constant buzzing over head that may kill someone at anytime. That’s terrorism. And the indifference by supposed liberals is astounding.

          • Badgerite

            Don’t actually know that for a fact. You are too stupid to live. Al-Awlaki was interviewed by Al Jazeera some months before he was killed. I’ll paraphrase. He said that it was every Muslims duty, particularly American Muslims, to kill Americans, preferably in uniform but if none in uniform were available then any American will do. He did not limit it with respect to age, or gender, OR innocence. If you were an American, you were to be killed. If you were a good Muslim, this was your duty. These were his own words. You add those to the words of the young airline bomber wannabe and the assassin at Fort Hood and you pretty much have a FACT.

          • JarekAF

            He said that it was every Muslims duty, particularly American Muslims, to kill Americans, preferably in uniform but if none in uniform were available then any American will do. He did not limit it with respect to age, or gender, OR innocence. If you were an American, you were to be killed. If you were a good Muslim, this was your duty. These were his own words.

            Those are vile words. But last I checked we have a constitution which protects such speech, even vile speech like that which falls short of the Imminent Lawlessness test from Brandenburg.

            Even if it weren’t constitutionally protected speech,

      • drsquid

        So anyone who disagrees with you is a murderer. No, that’s not bigoted at all.

        You’re pretty agreeable to comparing an innocent kid to a terrorist making war on the US. But hey, he’s only black. So what? Your being OK with perpetuating the idea that young black men are dangerous makes me sick.

        • JarekAF

          terrorist making war on the US.

          Wrong. The 16 year old son was never alleged to be a terrorist. you just assumed it because he has a funny name. Kinda like how George Z assumed TM was up to no good based on how he looked.

          Your being OK with perpetuating the idea that young black men are dangerous makes me sick.

          No. The fact that GZ got away with murder makes me sick. It makes me as sick as the fact that we kill so many innocent brown people abroad. Everyone of these deaths is a tragedy and I wish we’d stop our drone program (or at least tighten it’s usage) and I wish we could outlaw guns though I know that’s not realistic.

          • missliberties

            hastag #Poser@JarekAF

          • Badgerite

            Already addressed. But one more time. His father knowing took him into a war zone and was a leader in Al Queda in Yemen. You knowingly enter a war zone and associate with people who have attacked the United States, you assume a certain risk.

          • JarekAF

            His father knowing took him into a war zone and was a leader in Al Queda in Yemen.

            1. Yeman isn’t a war zone.

            2. His father was already dead when he (the son) was killed by a drone strike.

            You knowingly enter a war zone and associate with people who have attacked the United States, you assume a certain risk.

            3. He wasn’t associated with anyone who had attacked the United States other than by being the son of one (who advocated attacks – which is protected free speech). Does that make one fair game to be killed? If your dad is a criminal . . . does it make it “not so bad” if you’re killed as well (after your father was killed)?

            4. I might as well say, you assume a certain risk when you look like a young black male in a gated community that had been subject to numerous break-in’s.

            5. I appreciate you trying to address the merit’s of the Son’s killing, but there are hundreds of other civilans we kill, who aren’t American citizens. Don’t their deaths deserve justice? I’d rather they be given justice than their surviving family members seeking vengeance.

            6. Every living human being is precious and I will never be ok wtih the taking of any human life, whether it’s by the death penalty, racist vigilante, or our government’s war on terror programs.

      • Badgerite

        You seem to think we are the only ones in those countries where drone strikes occur ( Yemen, Pakistan and Afghanistan ) who are killing ‘brown’ people. You do know that Al Queda has been known to target and kill ‘brown’ people, civilians, children, etc. Indeed, in Afghanistan, before we got there, brown people were killing a whole lot of brown people in a rather vicious civil war. So you could actually say we are killing brown people who kill brown people and have also declared Fatwa (war) on us. Or is that to complicated for you.

        Now Obama is trying to wind down the wars. We are no longer in Iraq. Oddly enough, brown people are still dying there. I guess other brown people are killing them. The US will be exiting Afghanistan within the year. But in order to make that work, (stay with me now) Al Queda , as a fighting force, has to be neutralized (killed) . Otherwise our withdrawal will result in more killing of brown people by other brown people and possibly even a base of operations from which attacks can be launched on the US again. So…..He is doing what he has to do, and what he has sworn to do.

    • missliberties

      Sirota considers himself a solid intellectual liberal. If you dared to call into his radio show, he would breathlessly talk over you to tell you how pure of a liberal he is, and how you were stupid if you didn’t agree with him. He is like a liberal Bill O’Reilly. As in let’s debate, er I mean shut up and let me talk, as he shouts over you.

      • nathkatun7

        Sirota is an intellectual?

    • blackdaug

      If I could give you 20 upvotes I would.
      People have really forgotten the origins of these Neo Liberal Libertarians.
      Many are people who never got over him beating Hillary in the primaries during the first election.
      They waited as long as they could…before using any excuse to slap “worse than Bush” stickers on their lunch boxes.

      • JarekAF

        Neo Liberal Libertarian.

        Is that the term now? You cannot possibly conceive that actual Liberals (not Lyndon Larouche — whoever that is) have been angered by all the innocent brown people our president kill’s?

        The reason I call out my fellow liberals is that, unless you speak out, it’ll continue forever. You think the GOP gives a s–t about dead Muslims? NO! It’ll only end once us Liberals call out the administration.

        • blackdaug

          Yes, you and the other “liberal” trolls, who conveniently find excuse after excuse to go after this president.
          Its a pity that such journalistic gymnastics don’t entail the same risk of injury actual gymnastics do.
          “Okay,ladies and gentlemen… he’s going to try a Zimmerman to Drone connect with an Obama dismount.”
          Oh God! He planted his face on the beam!
          There is blood everywhere!!
          Well no more Salon for him, it is reconstructive surgery and a stint at the Guardian for this plucky youngster….

          • JarekAF

            who conveniently find excuse after excuse to go after this president.

            It’s pretty pathetic that you view people angry about dead civilians as just finding excuses to go after this president.

            Please, tell me, who should we criticize then for this on-going policy? George W. Bush? I mean really . . . I don’t like it and I favor Obama to the GOP (by far) . . . but does that mean we cannot criticize him.

          • blackdaug

            Fuck your concern trolling ass!

          • JarekAF

            People of color our government kill’s over there = concern trolling.

            Yes. Thank you for proving Sirota’s point. Hard. You’re not liberal. You’re a partisan.

          • Victor_the_Crab

            With “liberals” like you, the right doesn’t need any enemies, asswipe.

          • blackdaug

            No…thank you for proving my point. Hard. You are not a liberal…you are a concern trolling dick.
            Really thanks.

          • nathkatun7

            “Charity begins at home!” You can’t stand the “people of color” here at home but you loves you some “people of color…over there.” I would say that’s concern trolling.

          • JarekAF

            You can’t stand the “people of color” here at home but you loves you some “people of color…over there.”

            What have I said that indicates to you that I cannot stand people of color at home?

            To most people, I appear to be a person of color (I’m of mixed background) and my likely bride to be, is definitely a person of color. I’m a bit of a humanist, I’ll admit that. So I’m equally angered by the senseless taking of Trayvon’s life, as I am, with the taking of the 35 women and children lives in Yemen in this attack: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/yemen/7806882/US-cluster-bombs-killed-35-women-and-children.html

            I see a connection, like Dr. King, between the violence we commit abroad and the violence we tolerate on our streets. Remember, the NYT and the LBJ administration turned on MLK as soon as he linked the civil rights movement to the Vietnam war. Justice at home will always take a back seat so long as we’re engaged in empire abroad.

            Just read this amazing OP/ED by the “liberal” NYT, calling out MLK for opposing the war: http://mlk-kpp01.stanford.edu/kingweb/liberation_curriculum/pdfs/vietnameditorials.pdf

            And MLK was right! He compared our chemical warfare to the Nazi’s experimentation and was pilloried! whereas, to this very day, children are born in Vietnam with flippers because of all the Agent Orange we dropped there.

            Our interests are aligned people.

          • missliberties

            Tell it!

            HashTag. BadCrazy@ConcernTrollJakeAF.

          • nasani

            Didn’t you hear the President express regret about the innocent civilians killed by drones? Do you think terrorists who plot to attack the United States sit around worrying about killing innocent American civilians? On the contrary, they specifically target civilians.

            The President is engaged in war to defend Americans from terrorist attacks. Regrettably, in war many innocent civilians are killed. Unless, of course, you want the President to do nothing and let the terrorists kill Americans with impunity, your pretense to care for Brown people is fake. By the way, you and Sirota have the luxury not to worry about protecting Americans. The President does not have that luxury. I bet you would be the first to call for his impeachment if he knew that terrorists were planning to attack the U.S and he did nothing resulting in the death of your families and loved ones.

            You oppose drone attacks on terrorists because innocent civilians are killed. I assume you oppose war and invasions which kill innocent civilians in much greater numbers. Then please tell us how you would defend innocent Americans from terrorists. Until you can
            propose an alternative solution to fight terrorism, I suggest you STFU.

          • JarekAF

            Didn’t you hear the President express regret about the innocent

            civilians killed by drones?

            No. I heard him deny the numbers were so high. I mean, if he had, then that’s a good thing I suppose. But those people didn’t need to die. Just like Trayvon shouldn’t have died.

            Regrettably, in war many innocent civilians are killed.

            But there isn’t a war! Abdulrahman Awlawki was at a family BBQ. The drone strikes, aren’t usually used in actual wars. We target funerals. We target rescuerers. It’s awful. We kill so many people and you, like many others, just assume that it’s only the bad guys we kill, whereas, it’s anything but.

            Then please tell us how you would defend innocent Americans from terrorists. Until you can propose an alternative solution to fight terrorism, I suggest you STFU.

            Terrorism is a tactic. There’ll always be terrorism. You tell me how calling random people in Yemen, Pakistan, Somalia, Afghanistan and elsewhere makes us safer. Each time we kill an innocent civilian, we’ve made enemies for life with all their cousins. No matter what we do, there’ll always be people out to get us. I’d support the president if he cut back on the drone strikes. For sure. Not only are they immoral and lower the threshold for us to attack (since no American lives are at stake, it’s easier politically to use drones), they make us less safe since they result in so many dead civilians. We kill hundreds of innocent civilians a year.

          • nathkatun7

            “I’d support the president if he cut back on the drone strikes”

            He has already done that! So are you now supporting him?

            Guess what people hold meetings to plot attacking the United states at funerals and BBQs. Unless of course you personally attended those funerals and BBQ’s and know first hand that no one was planning to attack the United States

            Bottom line, you have no clue about how to protect the United States absent of a full scale war. But you also would not be the one that the Americans hold responsible if you do not do all that is necessary to protect the country. So you can enjoy the luxury of hitting you keyboard, sipping what ever you enjoy sipping, while unleashing attacks on the President. This is a free country.

          • JarekAF

            Guess what people hold meetings to plot attacking the United states at funerals and BBQs. Unless of course you personally attended those funerals and BBQ’s and know first hand that no one was planning to attack the United States

            Again, you keep proving Sirota’s point. Most of those people are not plotting to attack the United States. AA Jr. wasn’t plotting to kill Americans. He was just a kid.

            But, like George Zimmerman, you just presume they were based on their appearance and neighborhood.

            There have been countless reports on our targeting of rescuers and funerals. Just google it. In the collateral murder video, it showed us killing rescuers, including children.

            But you also would not be the one that the Americans hold responsible if you do not do all that is necessary to protect the country.

            What does killing innocent brown people have to do with protecting our country? I mean seriously. Are you a liberal? That’s all you have to say? Collateral damage?

          • Badgerite

            Goodnight!

          • beulahmo

            Hey, that was good! :-D

        • nasani

          Proof please! Just because you say so doesn’t make it so. I for one don’t believe you took up a student loan of $1,000 to donate to President Obama.

          • JarekAF

            I for one don’t believe you took up a student loan of $1,000 to donate to President Obama.

            Man, if only because I need to keep my “online commenting” activities anonymous (my employer wouldn’t like it), I’d send you my full name and show you my details on open secret.org. I kept giving 100 here and 100 there and in the end it was over $1,000.

            Why’s that so hard to believe? HRC sold the Iraq war hard. I didn’t want her to get the nomination. I was in law school and there was maybe 2 people in favor of Hillary (one of whom was her former staffer and now a state legislator) and everyone else (about 30-40 of us) favored Barack.

          • nathkatun7

            Ya right!

        • blackdaug

          Wow that is quite a tale…(wipes away tear).
          You come in here, less two days after the acquittal of dirt bag vigilante, for the crime of stalking and murdering a citizen, who was guilty of nothing more than walking down a street while black….
          ….and defend a hack journalist, who jumps through 12 hoops to put that dirt bag vigilante in the same boat as the first black president, by way of the “drone highway”…and we are supposed to debate the merits of policy with you?
          You couldn’t have donated any money to this president….because you are either: insufferably stupid, a republican…or 10 years old.

          • JarekAF

            You couldn’t have donated any money to this president….because you are either: insufferably stupid, a republican…or 10 years old.

            No dude. I’m a 31 year old anti-war Democrat. I was 27 during the 2008 election and I despised HRC for her selling of the Iraq war. I felt like she was selling it, not because she believed it, but because she believed Democrats need to be “tough on defense,” since we’re perceived as weak. Whereas Barack was “I’m not against all wars, I’m just against stupid ones,” like Iraq.

            Yes, I know, GZ is a piece of shit. He gets his gun back too and will probably be a FNC pundit talking about race relations. F— that guy. But GZ being a piece of shit walking the street, doesnt’ make it ok that we happen to kill a lot of innocent people who are doing nothing more than just walking home themselves. And I wish my fellow liberals would care that we do! I cannot be proud to be an American while we kill so many innocent people for no good reason. I hate it so much. Those people are just as worthy of their dignity as Trayvon. To deny that is to reveal your bias.

          • blackdaug

            “Yes, I know, GZ is a piece of shit. He gets his gun back too and will probably be a FNC pundit talking about race relations. F— that guy. But GZ being a piece of shit walking the street, doesn’t make it ok that we happen to kill a lot of innocent people who are doing nothing more than just walking home themselves.”

            ….and you think, we are all okay with that huh?
            The two things are not equatable.
            You know what, I wish the world were the black and white, easy answer cartoon you guys are always trying to make it out to be.
            You know who wishes that more than us: This President.
            You spout off a laundry list of “crimes” or “policies” that he has failed you on, as if he were operating as some sort of dictator who can change the world on a whim…..or you accuse him of committing crimes or enacting policies that are far beyond the powers of any acting President.
            If you really are some disillusioned anti-war democrat, then you would know…that’s not how it works..which is why I don’t think you are.
            That is why you would realize why people would get upset when you try to conflate two things that have nothing to do with each other, except to use as more hammers to go after this president.
            Do you really think people don’t know that people have been killed in drone strikes? Do you think it is some kind of cover up that only you have discovered?
            I will say it again: Neither you or anybody else gets to use the senseless murder of this kid to hammer this President. It is offensive on more levels than I can name. Sirota was stupid for doing it, and you are stupid for repeating it.

        • Badgerite

          You don’t seem to notice that they are being address when they are addressed so why bother to address them. Apparently, that education was wasted on you because you really have just absorbed the Greenwaldian argument without question. And when anyone raises questions to you don’t feel you need to do anything but continue to wave a bloody shirt. There are a lot of bloody shirts out there. No. I can’t say as I do care about Al Awlaki’s son. His father was the one who took hims there. He knew the risks. And his son, having just lost his father , also knew the risk.

        • first last

          “It’ll only end once us Liberals call out the administration.”

          In the real world that has always accomplished the following things:

          1) it causes the Dems to become more hawkish

          2) it causes the Dems to become less economically liberal

          Attacking the Democrats from the left causes them to move further to the center every time. It’s just not a smart plan.

        • Lady Willpower

          PLEASE stop saying “brown people.” Maybe you think it’s cute and/or clever, but to me it just looks like coded language.

      • Norbrook

        I always love the former (and well-documented) supporters of Hillary and John Edwards, if they weren’t for Kucinich, trying to rewrite that as “I was a big supporter of Obama!”

        • blackdaug

          The difference being, if either one of them had won, I wouldn’t have waited until the inevitable republican attack blood bath, to start throwing knives at their back every chance I got…while pretending it was “concern” for drone victims, or guantamao detainees, or whatever…
          I be getting called a Hillbot or some such shit………..

          • JarekAF

            while pretending it was “concern” for drone victims, or guantamao detainees, or whatever…

            Serious question. Do you think any liberals are actually concerned about drone victims and guantanmo detainees? Or do you think it’s primarily political in motivation? I’m being sincere here.

          • blackdaug

            What?…Concern troll sez what? Didnt see anything past your name…sorry.

          • JarekAF

            A concern troll is someone who tries to stifle dialogue. I’ve been more than fair in trying to engage in civil discussion. I’m not the asshole here. It’s you. I asked you a fair question in response to your prior comment. You’d rather just shit talk.

          • blackdaug

            ?????

          • Victor_the_Crab

            I’ve been concern trolling all night. I don’t like where this is going so I’ve been hijacking the conversation. I’m a huge asshole. I asked stupid questions. I talk shit.

            Fixed for accuracy.

            You’re welcome.

          • Victor_the_Crab

            No you’re not. You’re just trolling hard here, you piece of shit.

          • beulahmo

            “Do you think any liberals are actually concerned about drone victims and guantanmo detainees?”

            Of course we do, you MONUMENTAL JACKASS. But we also acknowledge political realities, like an obstructionist Congress, actual violent extremists around the world who are still trying to wreak havoc on Americans (and YES, that IS George W. Bush’s fault, to answer one of your smartass “but..but..but…” objections upthread) which will be blamed on the weak, feckless black man serving as our CiC, and genuinely fuck nuts heads of state looking for ways to fuck us, all while making serious efforts to secure loose nukes and wind up large-scale military operations and change the trajectory of US foreign policy from endless war and a determined unilateral goal of hegemony to one of inclusiveness and unilateralism. How much history have you studied?? Do you have any idea how much time it takes to make the changes you’re so indignant about not seeing yet? Grow. the. fuck. up.

          • Victor_the_Crab

            The post of this thread!

          • JarekAF

            So you’re saying Barack Obama has to drone strike innocent people? It’s Congress’s fault? You can’t really believe that.

          • nathkatun7

            Correction! PRESIDENT Obama does not “drone strike innocent people.” It just so happens that sometimes innocent people are killed by drones aimed at taking out terrorists plotting to attack America. This is what happens all the time in a war. It’s the terrorists that you so in love with that target attacking innocent people.

          • first last

            You don’t have to agree with Obama, but even on issues where you do agree with him like Gitmo or indefinite detention…. you still attack him over it? That’s ODS right there.

            When he comes out and says he’s going to do something and then does exactly what he said he was going to do and then you accuse him of being a liar? That’s ODS right there.

            When a liberal-hating Paultard consumed with hatred of social programs and gun control told you a bunch of lies about government surveillance, you sure enough went after Obama. That’s ODS right there.

          • nasani

            If you are concerned about Gitmo detains why are you then attacking the President who has been blocked by Congress from closing it? Why aren’t you out there attacking congress including your allies like Rand Paul? As far as I am concerned your motivation has a great deal to do with your visceral hatred of President Obama.

        • nasani

          And they expect us to bow and take their words at face value. From now on, I want proof ffrom all the emoprogs claiming to have been big supporters of Obama. l want to see proof from JarekAF who claims to have given “$1000 of his student loan” to Obama.

      • nathkatun7

        “If I could give you 20 upvotes I would.” Me too backdaug! Norbrook is one most astute political observer I have come across. He can smell grifters a mile away. (Well so to speak).

    • nathkatun7

      This a million times!

  • beulahmo

    You’re right — it’s embarrassing. So embarrassingly absurd is Sirota’s latest stretch of reason in order to serve his boringly predictable ODS agenda, I was ready to just dismiss this latest fuckery as too ridiculous to address. But I’m glad you did because you did it perfectly. Thank you.

  • PrettyFootWoman

    why is it so easy to use the N word…whenever I see it in print…it punches me in the gut

    • Lady Willpower

      It’s very illustrative when you’re trying to show just how ugly someone’s thoughts really are.

      • PrettyFootWoman

        I will never see the n word as illustrative

        • Lady Willpower

          Because hateful bigotry should never be turned into something cute and sanitized like “N-word.”

    • beulahmo

      It’s not easy to use. That’s why it’s an illustration of the unhinged hatred we believe mostly accounts for the manner in which Sirota critiques this president.

      • Plantsmantx

        From what I can remember, Sirota has the same political convictions he had before Obama came along. What I don’t remember is presumably “liberal”, “progressive”, or whatever people calling him a “racist” for having those convictions.

        What’s changed?

        • blackdaug

          His unjustified hatred of the black president?

          • Plantsmantx

            Really? His having the political convictions he had before Obama became President…before any of us ever heard of Barack Obama…political convictions which, for the most part, I don’t doubt most of the commentators on this page shared with him before Obama became President…constitutes “unjustified hatred of the black president”?

            I’m not buying it.

          • blackdaug

            I’m not trying to sell it to you. The article which is the subject of this post alone…proves it. Buy it or not.

          • Plantsmantx

            What I see is an extremely unhealthy level of devotion to Obama. That devotion causes you and others like you to abandon your previously held political “convictions” if and when Obama does something contrary to those “convictions” (yeah, I know- “pragmatism”, LOL). And if someone criticizes him (or, in your minds, “Him”) you instantly despise that person.

            Not all authoritarian followers are right-wing.

          • PinkamenaPanic

            Buzzword buzzword buzzword I WIN OBOTZ!!!111ELEVENTY

          • nathkatun7

            You are projecting! You want us to buy everything Sirota says, but you don’t think you are authoritarian. I for one was repulsed by Sirota equating Goerge Zimmerman with President Obama. That was not conviction that was blatant effort to demean the President. And you know it.

          • Plantsmantx

            I don’t care if you buy it or not…just be honest about why you’re not buying it.

          • blackdaug

            “extremely unhealthy level of devotion to Obama. That devotion causes you and others like you to abandon your previously held political “convictions” ….blah…blah…

            Look, I am not paid to write here, and thus am not constrained by the niceties of the bloggers, so I will lay it out for you:
            Sirota is racist. Greenwald is a fucking racist. Rand Paul is a fucking racist pig. That clear things up.
            I haven’t abandoned a single conviction I have held since likely before you were fucking born.
            I haven’t had to, this president has not given me cause to.
            Not you….or an army of tin foil hat morons calling me an Obot is going to convince me other wise.
            Now …fuck off…

          • Plantsmantx

            You (or any of the other authoritarian follower, personality cultists here) want to show me where you denounced either Sirota or Greenwald as “racist” before they began to criticize Obama?

            I haven’t abandoned a single conviction I have held since likely before you were fucking born.

            Yeah…they obviously weren’t real convictions in the first place, so who could you really abandon them?

          • nathkatun7

            That’s it exactly!

    • JMAshby

      If I recall correctly — and this is something I think I would remember — this may be the first time I have ever used it in print. I do not use it lightly or easily. I used it in this case to convey the gravity of Sirota’s derangement.

      • PrettyFootWoman

        never acceptable

        • PinkamenaPanic

          Your concern is noted and duly ignored. You are not the aribter of this decision, you privileged white woman. Be quiet.

          • PrettyFootWoman

            not a white woman…smh

  • js hooper

    Over the years I’ve become convinced that some of the Paultards in the professional left intentionally go out of their way to offend black people. They get great joy out of insulting the black community…as well as black supporters of President Obama.

    There is literally no other reason why Sirota would pick this extremely emotional moment to repeatedly compare President Obama to George Zimmerman.His goal was to be as offensive as possible.

    It’s also why Sirota, Greenwald and so many others repeatedly and aggressively defended RACIST WHITE SUPREMACISTS Ron & Rand Paul to this day.

    Here are just a few examples of blatant racism in the professional left off the top of my head.

    Jane Hamsher using blackface
    Greenwald joining in on a rape joke about the 1st Black President
    (you know cuz all black men are prone to rape)
    Gene Lyons comparing Melissa Harris Perry and other black supporters of Obama to the KKK

    • blackdaug

      In it’s way, it was fairly Greenwaldian (..hate that is a term).
      Pick an inflammatory subject as a headline, after one nonsense connector paragraph,(with “attitudinal shift” or “zestiest”…or whatever) pivot to your favorite Obama hate topic dejour. More of a hack writing device than anything.
      David Brooks does it all the time…and of course he is racist as hell. He usually takes some societal ill and connects it to hippies or brown people in general…after about 600 words or so.
      I would say it was a miscalculation of massive prepositions in this case.
      …..but Sirota, isnt really the sharpest knife in the drawer.
      I do believe there were a lot of racists on the left, who managed to keep their feelings down…..long enough for this president to turn out to be ..not an infallible Superman with extra legal powers..
      They suddenly became libertarians!

    • beulahmo

      I think it’s plausible that they aren’t aware of their racism, but their actions make its presence unmistakable — especially to folks who know racism when they see it. And the examples you provided are blatantly obvious, whether those folks have the self-awareness to see it or not.

      • nathkatun7

        To be honest, I don’t know how this could be plausible. How can any one who was born and raised here not know that they being racist, or, at the minimum, using racial stereotypes, when they say or do the things Js hooper highlighted?

        • beulahmo

          If they have two brain cells to rub together, I don’t see how they could be unaware of what they’re doing either, frankly. The point I’m trying to make is that whether they’re intentionally racist or not, their behavior is obviously, blatantly racist.

          • nathkatun7

            I agree! My question was rhetorical and was in no way meant to question your comment.

    • villemar

      Well, remember, 93% of the AA community voted for OHitlermba, so that makes them all drooling idiot obot lemmings with no capacity for critical thought, too stupid to realize the TRUTH WAKE UP SHEEPLE!!!!111 that Obama is a war criminal that kills brown babies overseas for lulz, or something.

  • joseph2004

    Ladies, pleeeze…..,,,,….continue!